tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28390776.post116043325728157947..comments2008-07-01T23:35:47.071+01:00Comments on Looking for my fig tree: Judging Judgement (1): PunishmentJohnnyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12469172677728244145noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28390776.post-66430157829609075022008-07-01T23:35:00.000+01:002008-07-01T23:35:00.000+01:00I really like your understanding that atonement is...I really like your understanding that atonement is NOT propitiation; rather, it is expiation. However, I would modify your following comment- 'God does not punish the substitute, rather the action which is a punishment to the one who deserves it, is received by the substitute as an act of atonement. Therefore Christ took the punishment that was due to us, in order to set aside our sin, but Christ was not punished, he atoned' - to say that atonement is properly a substitution for punishment. Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus 'took' our punishment. The language still implies that he was punished, and I agree with you that he was not punished. Atonement in the Old Testament did not consist in punishment being executed on sheep. Rather, atonements taught the same lessons, served the same purpose for which penalties are designed. The answer is clearer when we ask what is the purpose of punishments or penalties? If something can better answer the reason for penalties, then they can be wisely and safely set aside. In other words, there is no need for retributive justice to be satisfied. The satisfaction of justice was never the intent of either punishments or atonements. The definition of justice cannot change; if a person is an evil-doer, justice must always and ONLY require the punishment of the evil-doer. It can never be just for a judge to sentence the innocent or for a governor to punish the innocent. That's my take on it. Peace, Doug GibsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28390776.post-1160694259774062342006-10-13T00:04:00.000+01:002006-10-13T00:04:00.000+01:00She left at lunch ... needed to get back for schoo...She left at lunch ... needed to get back for school pickup time. Day went well it seems.<BR/><BR/>I've never stopped musing on Meaning of Salvation, seems rather central, hence the number of posts that hark back to it.Johnnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12469172677728244145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28390776.post-1160518408580634642006-10-10T23:13:00.000+01:002006-10-10T23:13:00.000+01:00Woah! Some great thinking going on here, I can te...Woah! Some great thinking going on here, I can tell, unfortunately I'm not in a good state to interact with it sensibly; it did however give me a flashback or two to 'Meaning of Salvation'...<BR/><BR/>Yes it was me, I admit it. But apologies to Kristine that I disappeared at lunchtime - I had a Hebrew class (what a poor excuse). Hope she's looking forward to coming back next week, and not running a mile from ICC! :-)Nodroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00017357298110411327noreply@blogger.com